“(2) her submission is voluntary,”
Let me expand on this a little further. Again, based on my experiences as a cog in the system–which were extensive.
Under current law in the US, this is the ONLY way “submission” will be occuring for the forseable future.
1. If she changes her mind..you go to jail.
2. If some of your friends come over to your house for dinner and they witness it (and don’t like it)…you go to jail.
3. If she talks about it to her mother and she doesnt like it…you go to jail
He was challenged about this, and responded:
I stand by it because I have seen it. I have been the vehicle for it. I have seen men go to jail for:
- Putting their wife on an allowance.
- Stopping her from going out with certain friends.
- Inspecting her phone records.
- Telling her to quit her job.
I don’t so much care who believes me. I know it to be true first hand, so it is not an issue.
This seemed to me to be quite strange, and I questioned him about this.
What’s bothering me about what you said is the implication that a third party could induce a chain of events such as you’ve described over the objections of the wife.
“To expand–once the call is made-IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE WIFE RECANTS in most states now. Even if it is hearsay from mommy in another state.”
“her testimony isn’t really dispositive if she decides to back off – it’s discounted, in many cases, if she decides to do that”
The terms “recant” and “back off” implies that at some point she made a statement (complaint) alleging wrong-doing on the part of the husband. However, my question was solely within the context of a third-party accuser and:
1.) no abuse occurred, in the opinion of the “victim”
2.) the wife didn’t make the complaint, objects to the complaint and denies abuse
3.) the wife is willing to testify in favor of the husband but not against him.
“What bothers me is there seems to be a large portion of men around here who think they still have some fancy lawyer tricks they are going to use in order to force the police to give them their due process rights back. Good luck with that. Once this train leaves the station on you, you are toast.”
We aren’t talking about fancy lawyer tricks. My concern is that Scott and Novaseeker are telling me that even under the three conditions I stated above, the husband would be convicted and the wife’s denial of abuse would be taken as confirmation of abuse. I’m not talking about recanted allegations made by the wife, rather a third party accuser and the wife’s denial any abuse took place.
“So, yes, someone is at your dinner party who is a feminist, doesn’t like the dynamic between you and your wife and sees it as Duluth abuse, can have you arrested for domestic violence even over your wife’s objections, and once that happens it’s likely that you will be sucked into the entire DV legal system”
Again, this is entirely within the context of what I originally asked Scott about, which was that a third party could get the husband thrown in jail and even convicted of domestic violence; against the will and over the objections of his wife- the purported victim. Even assuming they’re generally correct, I believe there is one huge loophole that will make it all go away. This loophole requires the wife be 100% on the husband’s side because ONLY she can defend him successfully.
I was reflecting on this, and it occurred to me that if what Scott and Novaseeker are saying is true, this is an opportunity for public education, and what better way to educate people than a short, dramatic video.
Imagine what follows as the script for a short PSA entitled “Don’t Be That Bitch”
- Husband played by attractive male, tall, muscular, full head of hair, early forties. Wife played by very attractive woman, long blonde hair, thin with large breasts, mid thirties in age.
- Children, four of them, oldest is about ten, youngest is two and still in diapers.
- Judge is a balding male, mid-fifties white-knight beta with thick glasses and a wedding ring.
- Prosecutor is an overweight, short-haired ugly woman with a bad attitude.
- Feminist friend is a smug, self-righteous middle-aged butch looking woman who might be attractive if she were more feminine.
- Husband’s attorney is an attractive, young and very feminine woman.
Video begins in the courtroom, eyewitness on the stand, prosecutor has the floor and is questioning the star witness.
Prosecutor: “Would you describe the abusive behavior you witnessed, please?
Feminist Witness: “It’s a classic abusive relationship. He refers to himself as the “lord of the manor” and is always ordering her around like a servant and making her do stuff whenever I’m there. He won’t let her get a job because he says taking care of the children is more important than making money. I’ve heard him say that! He put her on an allowance, like she’s a child! He’s always calling her names, too, and making fun of her body.”
“The night he was arrested, I was at their home because she and I were going to go out for some girl-time. When she asked him for some money so we could go out, he gave her this really intimidating look and told her to go make him a sandwich, like she had to earn it! Then he slapped her because she wasn’t moving fast enough and she cried out in pain and ran away from him! I told him he was abusing her and he laughed at me and said “she loves it.” That was the last straw for me and I went into the bathroom and called the police.”
[Flashback: Feminist witness standing in bathroom dialing 911 and reporting an incident of domestic violence, asking for police intervention immediately. 911 operator asks if she thinks the husband is dangerous. Feminist witness answers “Yes. Definitely.” 911 operator asks if he’s armed. Feminist Witness says “I know there are guns in the house, but I don’t think he has one concealed on his person.”]
Prosecutor: “Have you ever witnessed any other abusive acts by the defendant that were directed toward his wife?”
Feminist Witness: “Yes. Frequently. I’ve seen him grab a fist-full of her hair and violently force her to kiss him on several occasions and on one other occasion he was yanking her hair and had her hands pinned against a wall over her head and she was moaning in pain. He’s constantly being physically aggressive and dominating with her and I’ve seen bruises on her neck where it looked like he had choked her. When I asked her about them she just shrugged her shoulders, said her husband’s name and changed the subject.”
[Flashback to scene at the family home. Cops arrived, Feminist Witness told them she witnessed husband physically strike wife. Wife, not knowing any better, admits he slapped her, but denies abuse. Husband gets taken away, wife and children are screaming, crying, and feminist former-friend is told to leave. Cut to fast-moving scene of husband being processed, booked and sitting in a cell. Repeat several more quick scenes of husband getting served breakfast for several mornings, then finally being arraigned and released OR with a TRO/No-Contact order against him.]
[Cut to wife’s testimony, wife on the stand]
Attorney For Husband: Does your husband forbid you from working outside the home and keep you on an allowance in order to control you?”
Wife: “Are you kidding? He gets up and goes to work five and sometimes six days a week to pay all the bills. I get to stay at home, be a mom and homeschool OUR children. I don’t want to work outside the home because being a mom actually IS the most important job in the world. That means our one-income budget has us BOTH on an allowance and the budget controls BOTH of us because if we can’t afford something we don’t buy it. Period. We used to have a bunch of debt and did stupid stuff with credit cards but then we grew up and did the Dave Ramsey thing and I’m never going through that again.”
Attorney For Husband: “What is the ‘Dave Ramsey thing?’
Wife: “That’s where you go on an austerity budget and pay off all your debts, starting with the smallest one first. When you pay off the smallest debt, that payment then gets applied to the next smallest debt, and so on. Finally, you get to the biggest debt but you’re making monster payments on it because all the money that used to get paid on all the other debts is now ALL being paid on the last debt. We did that for over two years. WE ARE DEBT FREE and I’m not going to go through getting out of debt again. We each have an allowance and if I want some of his allowance because I spent mine, I have to earn it. If he wants some of mine, believe me, I have a list of stuff I want done.”
Attorney For Husband: I see. Ok, about this name-calling, um… what kind of names does your husband call you?
Wife: “In public it’s always something like Sweetcheeks, Creampie, Jugs, Hoochie-Mama, or something like that.”
Attorney For Husband: “Does it bother you when your husband calls you names?”
[Wife turns and looks judge in the eye and holds eye contact for the following statement. Camera from judge’s POV,, wife looking straight into lens:]
Wife: “No. You see, it isn’t that I’m a dirty little cum-guzzling slut. OK?
Attorney For Husband: “I never implied any such thing!”
Wife: “The point is NOT that I’m a dirty little cum-guzzling slut, the point is that I am HIS dirty little cum-guzzling slut and I enjoy it more than you can possibly imagine. When he calls me Creampie, or Jugs, [Wife bounces her breasts suggestively] I know exactly what he’s thinking about and I like that too. It reminds me that he OWNS me and I CHOSE that. That might make you uncomfortable, but I’m the one who chose this and I like it.”
[Cut back to Wife’s POV, looking at judge, who can no longer meet her eye and is starting to look a bit flushed.]
Attorney For Husband: “What about him calling himself the ‘lord of the manor’ and ordering you around?”
Wife: “I’m not sure you’re listening to me, but in our home, he IS the lord of the manor, I’m his happy little serving wench. Does he like it? Of course- who wouldn’t? Again, I’m not complaining about it because I LIKE IT THAT WAY. You know the old saying about a wife is supposed to be a chef in the kitchen, a maid in the living room and a whore in the bedroom? Well, whatever he wants, if it’s within my power to give it to him, he’ll get it.”
Attorney For Husband: “In the incident that was described earlier, where on your body did your husband slap you?”
Wife: “Same place he usually slaps me, on my ass.”
Attorney For Husband: “How did you feel when your husband slapped you on the, uh, rear end?”
[Wife again focuses on judge’s face, camera angle shifts to judges POV with wife looking into the camera]
Wife: “Actually, it was really hot. I felt like giving him a blowjob while he ate his sandwich because he was paying out of his own allowance for me to go out with a woman I knew he didn’t like and all he wanted out of it was a sandwich and for me to come home horny! He was eating the sandwich when the cops got there and they wouldn’t listen to me, they arrested him. Then they took him to jail and THIS COURT issued a no-contact order so he couldn’t come home and I had to wait another THREE WEEKS before I could get that fixed and finally get laid again…
So let me tell you how I’ve been actually been abused, your honor: How about ALMOST AN ENTIRE MONTH with NO SEX because some bitch I thought was a friend decided she needed to stick her nose in my marriage. My husband got arrested, then was forbidden to have any contact with me and now he’s being prosecuted and we have to use his hard-earned savings to pay for an attorney to try to keep you from wrecking OUR lives. What did I get out of this?”
“Over twenty-four days with no sex. That’s abuse in my book. And then these idiots [Wife waves toward the prosecutor] come along and tell me I’m abused and I need help. They are all a bunch of fucking idiots and they are the ones who are abusing me because they refuse to Go The Fuck Away and leave us alone.”
Attorney For Husband: “Does your husband strike you frequently?”
Wife: “I prefer the word spank.”
Attorney For Husband: “Does your husband spank you frequently?”
[Wife looks straight at husband, smiles]
Wife: “He usually he makes me beg for it first, unless he thinks I deserve it. I gave him a signed, notarized non-consensual consent agreement that states he has my permission to spank me anytime he thinks I need it, for whatever reason, regardless of whether or not I want him to. My lawyer drew it up and I signed it with complete understanding of what it says.”
Attorney For Husband: “Why did you sign a document like that and give it to your husband?”
[Wife turns to judge before answering]
Wife: “Because the times I need a spanking are the times I’m most likely to tell him not to touch me and I might be stupid enough to get those people involved, which I would truly regret after the fact. I chose this route after careful consideration in a quiet, rational state of mind with competent counsel to assist me. So, I may not want to get spanked when I really need it, but after he gets done spanking me, I’m always really glad he did it.”
Attorney For Husband: “Are you trying to tell the court you enjoy being spanked?”
[Wife keeps focus on judge while answering question, view shifts to judge’s point of view with wife speaking directly to judge]
Wife: [Shakes head, rolls eyes.] “Think of the spanking as foreplay, ’cause it isn’t about the spanking, it’s about what comes after the spanking. Hottest. Sex. Imaginable. We’re talking earthquake and hurricane force orgasms. Just that one swat on the ass that got him arrested gave me a tingle that went straight to you know where [points at crotch] and he knew exactly what it did to me and he knew I loved it.”
Attorney For Husband: “What about the hair pulling and pinning you against a wall?”
[Wife addresses answer to husband’s attorney]
Wife: “When he grabs me by the hair and stuff like that, I get little tingles running up and down my spine and all through my body and I just kind of melt. I love it when he does stuff like that and I’m getting wet just thinking about it. OK? Like one time before we were married, he picked me up from work. Literally. He walked in and I was talking to a couple of the women, but I’d already clocked out. He didn’t say a word, just walked over, picked me up, threw me over his shoulder and walked out with me. That was so hot I had him pull over on a quiet street and I jumped him right there in the car. I wouldn’t even let him get me home. You’re straight, right? You have to know what I’m talking about.”
Attorney For Husband: “What about the bruises that were mentioned?”
Wife: They were hickies and I didn’t explain it because it wasn’t any of her business, but look- it doesn’t matter. We play rough because we BOTH like it rough. Both of us. If you think this is a one-way street, tell my husband to take his shirt off and take a look at what happens once he really gets me going.”
Attorney For Husband: “So you enjoy it when your husband is physically rough with you?”
Wife: “That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. I like it, I want it and I don’t want it to stop.”
Attorney For Husband: “You don’t want it to stop?”
Wife: “Hell no! What I want stopped is this bullshit prosecution of my husband. We have a 24/7 Dominant-Submissive relationship, I call my husband ‘master’ and I do whatever he tells me to do because I want to please my master. If he told me to strip naked in public, I’d do it.”
[Judge rolls his eyes at that statement and looks at husband. Husband looks at judge, amused, and raises an eyebrow.]
Husband: [Snaps fingers while looking at judge, but speaking to wife] “Cupcake, lets see how fast you can strip.”
[Wife jumps to her feet, shrugs out of her dress and reaches behind her back to unfasten her bra. Judge bangs gavel and furiously orders her to stop undressing and pull her dress back up. Wife stops unfastening her bra, but looks to her husband, who stares at her for a moment before he nods his permission and motions her to put her dress back on. Wife pulls dress back up and sits down.]
[Bang. Bang. Bang. Judge gets everyone’s attention with his gavel.]
Judge: “I have put up with this circus long enough. Of my own motion, I am dismissing this case. Whatever antics this couple amuses themselves with is their business and it’s apparent to me that this is not something that should be taking up this court’s time.”
Attorney For Husband: “Your honor, I move the court to restore my client to the condition he was in prior to his arrest. That would include expunging his record of arrest, removing him from the domestic violence offender database, returning his personal weapons and sealing the highly personal testimony that’s been heard in this case. Since this court agrees this isn’t a matter of domestic violence, I’m asking that my client be restored so they can get on with their lives and put this behind them.”
[Speaking to Prosecutor] “Remove his name from the domestic violence offender’s database and give him back his firearms. I am ordering his record of arrest expunged and I am sealing this case. Any objections? No? It is so ordered. In the future I suggest your office do a better job of investigation before filing domestic violence charges when they’re clearly not warranted and wasting this court’s time trying to prosecute when there’s clearly no victim.”
[Speaking to Wife] Ma’am, you will restrain yourself and keep your clothes on until you get home. After that, I don’t care what you two do, but I don’t want to hear of any complaints of public indecency in our parking lot because your libido got out of hand. [Bang] “Case dismissed.”
[Scene cuts to the family home: husband, wife and husband’s attorney seated at the dinner table]
Attorney For Husband: [Speaking to wife] “I just want to say, that was an academy award winning performance today. Do you realize that if you’d pulled your bra off he would have probably jailed you for contempt?”
Wife: [Smiling] “I had him sew it closed this morning. Even with the hooks undone, it still wouldn’t come off.”
Attorney For Husband: [Shocked look on face] “You two planned that?”
Husband: “You said she had to convince the court we have an ‘alternative lifestyle’ and go into detail about BDSM stuff, so she’s been reading FetLife for weeks. She even posted a couple of questions and several of people in the group who responded are lawyers. They’re the ones who suggested I command her to strip because that’s the one thing a woman will not do unless she’s seriously into being submissive. Women can say anything, but when she pulled her dress down and started undoing her bra, that was putting her money where he mouth was. I knew he wasn’t going to allow her to completely strip down, but we had to give him time to recover and at the same time she had to be getting undressed as fast as possible because that’s what I’d ordered her to do. Sewing the bra on seemed like the best solution. The best part was after he ordered her to get dressed, when she looked at me for permission. I think that’s what finally did it.”
Attorney For Husband: [Shakes head] “Well, it worked. I doubt the prosecutor’s office will file DV charges against you again anytime soon, but you two need to realize that it could have gone either way. [Speaking to husband] You could have had your life ruined. Seriously ruined. I’m just thankful you two were willing to play it out the way I told you to. Otherwise, you’d be a convicted felon right now. If she hadn’t been willing to play it completely over the top, they’d have taken her denial of abuse as the proof she was abused.
[Speaking to Wife] When you looked the judge in the eye and said “I am his dirty little cum guzzling slut and I like it that way” he was totally on your side from that point on, but he let me rebut all the abuse issues for the record. I suggest, um, you stay with the role and whenever somebody acts concerned with your submissiveness to him, describe it in terms of kink and smile about it. Amplify whatever is causing their concern the same way you described getting spanked to the judge. Plenty of people will make a complaint about domestic violence, and like you said, you might even be tempted to do it, but nobody opens their mouth about BDSM except to gossip about it.
Attorney For Husband [stands and picks up purse]. “I need to go, but I’m curious. How did you get a notary to backdate that consent for spanking?”
Husband: “We didn’t get it backdated. It was signed 3 years ago.”
[Wife has very wide-eyed innocent look on her face]
Attorney For Husband: “So that means…”
Wife: [Shaking head, smiling] “Now you’re asking for the details, but you don’t get that without skin in the game. If you want answers, take the clothes off and join us for a threesome.”
Attorney For Husband [Gives both of them a wry smile]. “Perfect answer. That’s exactly what I was talking about. I think you’ll do just fine.”