Toad’s Churchian Challenge

The Christian Manosphere blogger Deep Strength has gone the way of churchians and decided the most fundamental aspects of family cannot be discussed.  The definition of marriage and divorce.

A post was made on his blog about “Sexless Marriage and Other Relationship Statistics“.  I pointed out that it’s meaningless because the definition of both marriage and divorce have been polluted in this comment.   What I said is below, but his response was pictured in the screen-cap above, the subject of the Biblical definition of marriage and divorce are not subject to debate on his blog.

Deep Strength’s blog is titled as “Christianity and Masculinity” and he has in the past demonstrated that he is fully capable of doing Biblical research and exegesis.  This is a perfect example of someone who claims to be a Christian refusing to see what God’s Word actually says because it so wildly conflicts with his beliefs.

Those familiar with this blog won’t see anything new here, I simply laid out the facts:

The problem with this subject lies with two words. First, the word “marriage” and second, the word “divorce”.

First, consider one fact very carefully. Adultery is a death-penalty offense in the Bible. Adultery, contrary to modern belief, is the crime of a married woman having sex with a man who is not her husband. Period. That is what the Bible says, nothing more, nothing less. If you are going to kill someone for committing this crime, what is the very first thing that must be established? The fact the woman is married. So, here’s the question: when does marriage begin?

You have two choices in this. You can go full-blown churchian and say that it occurs with a ceremony in front of witnesses, by consent… or you can go with what the Bible says. The Bible says that marriage occurs when the virgin is penetrated by the man.

I refer you to Genesis 2:24, right at the beginning, where the authority was given to the man. “For this cause a man…” Genesis 2:24 is a grant of authority, given to the man. Not to the community, to the families, to the state or to the church. To the individual MAN. If one takes Genesis 2:24 in light of Genesis 1, Leviticus 21, Numbers 30, Matthew 19, 1st Corinthians 6 and Ephesians 5, the meaning is as follows:

In order to be fruitful and multiply, a man shall go out from under the authority of his father and mother to begin his own family, of which he shall be the head. He shall have sexual intercourse with his (virgin) wife and the Lord God shall make the two become “one flesh” in a spiritual joining that is a great mystery, the same as becoming a part of the body of Christ.

How do we know this? Fortunately, the Bible is self-interpreting. In Genesis 2:24 the entire verse devolves to the meaning of the Hebrew word “dabaq” which is most commonly translated as the word “cleave” or “join.” You have been told that *this* is where the ceremony of commitment is made, which is followed by sex,(becoming one flesh). That is completely wrong and does not agree with the rest of Scripture. Jesus quoted Genesis 2:4 in Matthew 19 and the Hebrew word “dabaq” was translated as the Greek word “kollao”. The Apostle Paul used the same word, in the same context of Genesis 2:24 (quoting half the verse) in 1st Corinthians 6:16. The word means sexual intercourse.

In Matthew 19, Jesus said “they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate.” In Ephesians 5 Paul compared the becoming one flesh in marriage with the becoming one body in Christ, both of which are spiritual joinings, both of which are a great mystery. The third part of Genesis 2;24 (shall become one flesh) speaks of a spiritual joining of the two that God performs. It is NOT the act of having sex, it occurs as a result of having sex with the virgin.

A=B and B=C. Therefore A=C. “Dabaq” as used in Genesis 2;24 means the exact same thing as “Kollao” in 1st Corinthians 6:16 and there is no way around that. This means that when the virgin has sex with a man she is married to that man whether she knew it or not, whether she agreed to be married or not. A virgin does not have agency and she can be married against her will without her consent. This is proven by the fact that in Exodus 21 a woman could be sold by her father to be the wife (concubine) of a man whether she agreed or not. In Deuteronomy 21, we see that a woman captured in battle can become the wife of a man whether she agrees or not when he has sex with her. In Deuteronomy 22 we see that the virgin not betrothed who is raped (and it is discovered) is married to the man who raped her.

All women are virgins when they marry.

So, the question arises… does having a wedding ceremony with a married woman mean that one is now married to her? No. It is a fraud. One cannot “marry” a woman who is already married, one can only institutionalize the adultery. So… look around your church and ask yourself: in how many of those couples did the man get her virginity? The answer is that in probably 85% or more of the couples, they are living in adultery.

Oh… God provided a way out in this… The father can annul that marriage his daughter entered into without her knowledge or his knowledge, in most cases.

Now, having said that, when a man and woman who were never married at all do a so-called “divorce”… if they were not married then how can they divorce? The answer is they can’t. The woman is STILL married to her husband she doesn’t even know about. Because God is not mocked. He made the rules for marriage and He really doesn’t care what some little state court judge has to say or what the opinions of some preacher. His Word endures forever.

All women are either virgins, married, widowed, divorced or in some cases not virgins but never married (because of the decision of their father). Given the fact that no-one knows what the Bible actually says about marriage, the odds of meeting a “single” woman who is not a virgin are approaching infinity. In other word, if she is not a virgin, you have to work with her father to get her un-married before you have sex with her, otherwise you commit adultery.

Again, no surprises, except that one of the supposed stalwarts of the Christian manosphere refuses to engage in a debate he will lose.  He is doing exactly what the feminists do, shutting off the debate he can’t win.  It would be interesting to see him (or anyone else) provide an explanation as to the following:

Toad’s Challenge:

Category I: Definition of Marriage

  • What is the Biblical definition of marriage, and what are the requirements of the Bible for the formation of marriage?  In other words, what acts must be taken each and every time for all of time in order to form a marriage?  At what point will God consider the man and woman married?
  • What is the Biblical standard of commitment in marriage of the man and the woman?  Are they the same or are they different?
  • Are the requirements of marriage different for virgins and non-virgins?  If so, why?
  • Does the virgin have agency?
  • How does the man demonstrate his consent and commitment to marriage?
  • Is the Father’s permission required to marry his daughter?

Category II: Definition of Divorce

  • According to Matthew 19, after quoting Genesis 2:24 on the subject of divorce, Jesus said “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been this way.”  Demonstrate from the text why divorce (which Moses “permitted”)  has not been this way from the beginning.  How was there no divorce from the beginning?
  • According to Romans 4:15 and 5:13 the Law defines sin and therefore applies to everyone.  According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, it is forbidden to add to the Law or subtract from it. Does Christ have the authority to violate God’s Law by adding to or subtracting from the Law?
  • Does Christ have the authority to command the servants He purchased with His blood to not divorce for any reason, even though Moses permitted husbands to divorce their wives if they committed adultery?
  • Does Christ have the authority to command His male servants not to have sex with prostitutes, even though the Law makes no such prohibition?
  • Does He have the authority to command His servants to only marry men or women who are also His servants?  If so, do such regulations that Christ makes for His servants apply to those who are not Christians?

Category III:  Definition of Sexual Immorality

  • Is “sex outside the bounds of marriage” always a sin?
  • What is the Biblical definition of “fornication”?
  • What is the Biblical definition of adultery?
  • If lust is a sin, what law is being violated?
  • Is female homosexuality a sin?
  • Is female prostitution a sin, in and of itself?

Category IV:  Issues Related To Polygyny

  • Is polygyny lawful?
  • Did God support polygyny?
  • Did God sometimes command polygyny?
  • Did God have two wives?
  • Did anything in the New Testament forbid polygyny?
  • Does polygyny offer solutions for the marriage crisis today?

Rules: Sola Scriptura, no antinomies allowed, cite the definitive text with exegesis as necessary for each answer.  Responses may be submitted by email to artisanaltoad at gmail or in the comments below.

For those of you who are new here, keep in mind that what the text cannot mean in light of other passages quite often determines what it does mean.  I will provide one example:

It is often claimed (falsely) that Christ’s teaching in Matthew 19:4-6 forbade a man from having more than one wife.  The problem with this is Jesus didn’t have the authority to change the Law because the Law clearly stated that it was not to be added to or subtracted from.  Doing so was a violation, which is a sin.  The Law supported having more than one wife and gave the regulations for a man who desired to do so.

Had Jesus actually been teaching a “one man and one woman” doctrine of marriage that forbid polygyny, He was in sin and therefore not a perfect and acceptable sacrifice and therefore could not have been the Messiah.  If Jesus was not the Messiah we have no Christianity and the entire New Testament is a lie, so consider that we must not only look at what He said, we must consider it in light of what He could not possibly have meant with the words He used.

Advertisements
This entry was posted in Biblical Illiteracy, Churchianity, Marriage, Messages to a young man. Bookmark the permalink.

7 Responses to Toad’s Churchian Challenge

  1. SnapperTrx says:

    At the risk of being labelled a ‘follower of the toad’ I have to say that your previous flow chart work has done wonders for explaining how this all works. I mean, once you understand the inter-scriptural references simply reading the text explains it. It’s a scary prospect, but again, do we believe what the bible says or do we believe what we believe the bible says. I choose to believe the words, even though they cut, even though they expose muscle and bone, and I will have to deal with some ugliness in my life. I appreciate your work, Toad.

    [EDIT: Added a link to the post with the flow chart. Toad]

  2. Renee Harris says:

    Sir I found it hard to have Christian friends due to this believe. I meet a woman who married her husband after their ( wedding ) party at church .😉 she still think the party made her married…
    I told a guy to sleep with me is to marry me, but he said casual sex with a virgin is not to marriage. I realize many men who to marry ( deflowered ) me but they not live with in me a marriage. Any advice.

  3. SFC Ton says:

    The Christian man o sphere is pretty much churchian with a very slightly different spin, but pretty much push the blue pill etc as hard as they can.

    It’s more about culture for then the following the Word of the Lord

  4. Pingback: Theology For Men of the West: Adultery | Toad's Hall

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s